Latest Christian Carnival is…

here.

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Westboro invited to Reason Rally, Ratio Christi invited to email

I reported Thursday the invitations of Westboro Baptist Church and Ratio Christi to upcoming atheist Reason Rally in Washington, D.C. by the National Atheist Party.  I need to correct that report after hearing back from Ratio Christi’s Director of Administration, Blake Anderson, who informs us that Lee Moore’s invitation was only
…a very short friendly invitation to dialog noting that he had read a blog by me on the WBC invitation issue. He offered to address any concerns we might have about the NAP. There was no invitation to the event.
We responded that we are open to dialog and remain interested in an explanation as to how the NAP and <a href="http://richarddawkins.net/articles/645281-westboro-baptist-church-to-attend-reason-rally-with-special-message-for-atheists&quot; rel="nofollow" title="http://richarddawkins.net/articles/645281-westboro-baptist-church-to-attend-reason-rally-with-special-message-for-atheists
blocked::http://richarddawkins.net/articles/645281-westboro-baptist-church-to-attend-reason-rally-with-special-message-for-atheists”&gt;The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Religion believes that inviting WBC enhances the credibility of the event.
Lee Moore returned our email last night and he simply referred to his article here as the official statement why he authorized the WBC invite. He then asked if we wanted to know anything further. Very short response.
Regarding this quote from Moore:
“Just today I sent an email to one of the anti Reason Rally spin groups Ratio Christi inviting them to an open dialogue with us. WBC is not the only group we wanted to open lines of communication with. They were just the most well known one.”
…Anderson remarks “He did not call us a ‘spin group’ in that email.”

At this time, Westboro is the only “Christian” group invited to the Reason Rally. Ratio Christi members have collaborated with other apologists to publish a response to the Reason Rally in the form of an e-book entitled True Reason. There is no known response from the Reason Rally.

  • Reasons for faith 101: Is faith blind?
  • Reasons for faith 101: Do faith and science conflict?
  • Reasons for faith 101: Does natural evolution conflict with a creator God?
  • Reason Rally vs. True Reason (includes relevant links from various apologetics blogs)
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    Reason Rally vs. True Reason

    As I write this I am downloading the e-book, True Reason, which is part of a response from the Christian Apologetics Alliance to the Reason Rally coming up March 24 at the National Mall in Washington, D.C.  Besides the book, the Christian response includes actually attending the rally.  Click on all the links in this paragraph for more info., and check out the links below from CAA members:

    Apologetics Guy:  The Reason Rally and Reasonable Faith in an Uncertain World

    Deeper Waters:  Reason Rally: True Reason

    Faithful Thinkers:  True Reason: Christian Responses to the Challenge of Atheism and Are Atheists Redefining “Reason”?

    In Defense of the Christian Faith:  Reason Rally and True Reason: Ebook Review

    Josiah Concept Ministries:  Christians Respond to the Extreme Claims of the Reason Rally

    The Real Issue:  Reason Rally Supporter Not Very ‘Reasonable’ Inviting Christian Fringe Group

    Reasons for God:  The Reason Rally and the Westboro Invitation

    Thinking Christian:  The Reason Rally’s Brilliant Strategic Maneuver

    The Two Books Approach:  Reason Rally: the “True Reason” response in a new ebook

    Songs of a Semi-Free Man:  Reason Rally

    Christian Apologetics UK:  True Reason: Christian Responses to the Challenge of Atheism

    Ichthus77:  Westboro invited to Reason Rally, Ratio Christi invited to email and David Silverman of American Atheists:  Reason Rally not about dialogue

    Apologetics315: Featured Book—True Reason: Christian Responses to the Challenge of Atheism

    Ratio Christi @ OSU: New EBook: Christians Respond to the Extreme Claims of the Reason Rally

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    Walk to the Cross (Easter prep): Jesus in the Old Testament

    I asked Professor Tim McGrew for evidence that Christians didn’t “reinterpret” Old Testament passages to be prophecies fulfilled in Jesus.  As Easter approaches, it’s time to share his reply.  Material referred to is Maas (and here), Edersheim, and Miller (“NWNTI, JTM, BPM, DSST, SS, TM, LTJM, CTM. The citations from the Apocrypha are from CASA or HCSB, the Jewish Pseudepigrapha are from OTP, Dead Sea Scrolls from DSSTQTE et. al., rabbinix from various. The citations of scholarly opinion I have taken MAINLY from authorities that would NOT be considered ‘conservative’ or ‘evangelical'”).

    Also, below Professor McGrew’s reply is a very cool page shared with sermon group by my pastor on Jesus in all the Old Testament books.

    Professor McGrew’s reply:

    The most useful one-stop reference list here is Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, 8th ed., vol. 2 (London: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1912), Appendix IX, “List of Old Testament Passages Messianically Applied in Ancient Rabbinic Writings,” pp. 710 ff. Edersheim notes that his list is not complete, but it is fully adequate for the purpose of documenting Jewish messianic use of most of the texts in question.
    I am also including links to the work of the Jesuit scholar Anthony John Maas, Christ in Type and Prophecy, vol. 1 and vol. 2 (New York: Benziger Brothers, 1895). I think you’ll agree with me that Mass’s research is simply superb.



    Psalm 16
    The Midrash on verse 9 says: “My glory shall rejoice in the King Messiah, who in the future shall come forth from me, …” See Edersheim, p. 717.
    There is an outstanding discussion of this Psalm in Maas, vol. 2, pp. 358-74.
    Psalm 22
    Regarding verse 7 (which is verse 8 in the Hebrew division of verses), there is a comment inYalkut, a collection of old Rabbinic notes, a remark on Isaiah 60 that applies Psalm 22:7 to the Messiah. See Edersheim, p. 718.
    Isaiah 42
    Numerous passages in Isaiah were taken messianically by the Rabbinic commentators. Isaiah 42:1 is applied to the Messiah in the Targum, in the Midrash on Psalm 2, and in Yalkut. See Edersheim, p. 726.
    For a compelling argument that Isaiah 42 as a whole is messianic, see Maas, vol. 2, pp. 45 ff. One of Maas’s arguments hinges on the messianic nature of Isaiah 49; see below.
    Isaiah 49
    On verse 8: “There is a remarkable comment on this in Yalkut on the passage, to the effect that the Messiah suffers in every age for the sins of that generation, but that God would in the day of redemption repair it all (Yalk. ii, p. 52b).” Edersheim p. 726. Numerous verses in this chapter (8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 21, 23) receive messianic interpretations, as Edersheim documents.
    For an extensive treatment of the messianic nature of this chapter, including answers to objections, see Maas, vol. 2, pp. 86-94.
    Isaiah 52:13-53:12
    There is an extensive list for this particular passage in Edersheim, p. 727. There is an outstanding discussion in Maas, vol. 2, pp. 231 ff. See in particular the list in Maas, vol. 2, p. 234, of OT passages that confirm the description, and the list of Jewish commentators who interpret it messianically, pp. 234-37.
    Daniel 9:24
    In Naz. 32 b this is taken to refer to a time when the second Temple was to be destroyed. See Edersheim, p. 734 and Maas, vol. 1, pp. 299 ff. Note in particular Maas’s reference (p. 304) to Josephus, The Jewish War 4.6.3.
    Micah 5:2
    Virtually all commentators accept this verse as messianic, from the Targums onward. See Edersheim,  p. 735, and particularly Maas, vol. 1, pp. 274 ff.

    ***

    Also, my pastor shared this with sermon group, relevant to our church’s “walk to the cross”…what we do to prepare for Easter so that it doesn’t go by so fast we miss it…
     
    Jesus in all the books of the Old Testament (whole Bible actually, but this post is a little more zeroed in on the Old Testament prophecies)…
    http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/jesus66books.htm 

    Posted in Apologetics, Apologetics Toolbox, Tim McGrew | Leave a comment

    The hand of God vs chance

    You know the charge that the ancients naively interpreted all acts of nature to be by the hand of God? I just read 1 Samuel 6:9b:

    “But if not, then we will know that it was not His hand that struck us; it happened to us by chance.”

    They were giving God the opportunity to show them it was he who did it, as opposed to it happening by chance. That isn’t to say they thought that the possibility of things happening by chance threatened his sovereignty. Something to keep in mind when considering that aspect of free will (not about chance directly) and evolution (exactly the sort of chance meant in this passage).

    If you want to follow along with me in my daily bible reading, I follow the plan at http://www.biblenarrativeproject.blogspot.com :)

    Have a beautiful day :)

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    Groothuis’ "Christian Apologetics" ch.3: Apologetics Method: Evaluating Worldviews

    “…there is nothing impious in using arguments with unbelievers that employ their God-given reasoning abilities.  Good reasoning is not ‘autonomous’ or ‘apostate,’ but rather a God-given way to discover truth.” p. 63 (Groothuis’ Christian Apologetics)

    “Simply put, if a worldview fails to explain what it promises to explain, fails to make sense on its own terms (internal consistency), fails to describe what is there (objective and inner reality), fails to give intelligible meaning to life, or fails to be intellectually and culturally productive, it is disqualified from consideration.  I will argue that Christianity passes these tests better than any of its competitors.” p. 72

    See also my updated Different Methods in Apologetics.

    (discussion index)

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    Different methods in apologetics

    http://noblindfaith.com

    [ updated after re-reading chapter 3 of Douglas Groothuis’ Christian Apologetics ] [ updated again after reading the introduction to Five Views on Apologetics by Stephen B. Cowan, as well as John Frame’s main article on presuppositionalism, and his response to Bill Craig’s classical view. ]

    Apologetics, rather than being the study of really great ways to apologize, is the rational defense of the Christian faith, and there are five main methods of doing apologetics: Classical, Historical, Presuppositional, Reformed and Cumulative Case. I am just barely becoming familiar with these methods, so this post is subject to updates. By the way, thankyou so much to Eric Chabot for most of the links below.

    A review of four of them is here. A book on all five is here


    Classical Apologetics: From God (through natural theology) to miracles–not vice versa. Two-step approach.
    Classical apologists, like William Lane Craig, believe that, before expecting someone to even consider possible the miraculous bodily resurrection of Jesus (as recorded in the Bible), you must: 1) Start with natural theology to provide evidence that God exists and therefore miracles are possible. 2) Provide evidence for the specific miracle of Christ’s Resurrection.
     Chart here.

    Historical Apologetics or Evidentialism: From miracles to God. One step approach.
    Whereas classical apologists take the “two-step” approach, historical apologists like Gary Habermas, Michael Licona, and Tim and Lydia McGrew cut to the chase and argue in “one step” from the historical evidence that an act of God (miracle) occurred in the resurrection of Christ, to the truth of Christian theism. So, instead of first arguing that God exists so that one can then believe the resurrection miracle to be possible, or rather than presupposing that God exists, this method is a direct argument for God’s existence via the truth of Christ’s resurrection.
    Article here. Another good article here


    Presuppositional Apologetics: From the revealed Word to both God & miracles. Treat God as a given or it’ll all be nonsense.
    Presuppositionalists like John Frame and Ken Ham agree with classical apologists that we cannot argue from miracles to God and must first believe God exists in order to accept the possibility of miracles–however–they go even further and argue that we cannot argue for God’s existence, but must presuppose the truth of Biblical revelation. A presuppositionalist believes we should not start on common ground with an unbeliever (as in classical apologetics), because such ground is godless and sin has mucked with our reason so that such methods do not work. We should only use positive apologetics to show the logical coherence of Christianity, never to build up a case for accepting it, because no one will accept the evidence who does not already accept Christ.
     Chart here.


    Reformed Epistemology Apologetics (here): From the sensus divinitatis, &/or the Holy Spirit, to both God & miracles. Deep down, you know God…you got nothin’ to prove (to yourself!).
    Reformed epistemologists, like Alvin Plantinga, believe that Christian belief is a properly basic belief, like memory beliefs. We don’t need to provide evidence to others in order to know our memories actually happened, and likewise do not need to provide evidence to others in order to know the Holy Spirit saved us, or to know God through the sensus divinitatis (Calvin). Showing others the truth of Christianity is another matter. This view does not rule out other methods–it just validates that there can be this sort of knowledge without the sort of evidence that is accessible to others.



    Cumulative Case Apologetics: Natural theology, miracles, the witness of the Holy Spirit, and how it all just makes perfect sense if you see it through the assumption it’s all a “given”…all make a pretty airtight case for Christian theism.
    Cumulative case apologists focus on Christianity as the worldview that best explains the available evidence (cosmos, religious experience, objective morality, historical facts surrounding resurrection, et cetera). Individual arguments are not the focus, rather this “best explanation” idea is central. The cumulative case method uses “inference to the best explanation,” or “abduction,” or “hypothesis evaluation and verification” (Groothuis, Christian Apologetics). This method compares competing worldviews to show that Christianity (treated as an hypothesis) best accounts for the evidence: religious experience, natural theology, historical, and so on.

    ***

    I am most comfortable with this last method, because I can see how there is historical evidence supporting the resurrection and therefore God’s existence, but I also think that our hunger for true meaning (a clue to the existence of objective morality) should be the presupposed evidence we start with, for it is that hunger that Jesus satisfies when he demonstrates God’s contra-conditional love in switching perspectives with us on the cross. Also, I think the historical method uses “inference to the best explanation” when it rules out competing naturalistic theories in favor of the resurrection being the best explanation of scholar-accepted historical facts. All of that combined with the arguments from classical apologetics makes for a good avalanche. :)

    Much of this post was used in the CAA Catechism on this topic.

    Posted in Apologetics, Apologetics Toolbox, Groothuis' 'Christian Apologetics', Reviews and Interviews | 3 Comments

    Downey and Creekwood Park

    Today, after a delightful Saturday breakfast which included chorizo for the first time, and after hitting up Starbucks (all decaf cuz I’m no dummy) we paid a visit to Brighton (Downey) Park and Creekwood Park.

    Brighton has a nice man-made rock formation, two swings and the usual play area with slides. I could smell barbecue from an elaborate birthday party in the picnic area. Apparently there was another play area I didn’t see but Ethan did. There was a tennis competition on the Downey Courts. The boys played tag with a couple other boys and had fun. Wish I had taken a picture. David took the first two below, of Creekwood.

    Creekwood is much bigger and is landscaped with a dry creek bed with a bridge over it which you must cross to get to the play areas, which include one that looks like a ship and plenty of benches. There is a bigger play area than the ship and there are four swings. The boys removed a shoe string dangerously looping down from one of the slides. They are excited to see more parks.

    The first park we went to that actually inspired this blog was Donnelly Park in Turlock, about a month ago. It has a big pond with ducks, geese and big fish that all compete for your pieces of bread. Two big play areas–one with a lot of wood. Great Park.  Notice in the pic the big fish mouth jumping up for that piece of bread!

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    It just happened, eh?

    Louie Giglio: If the Earth Were a Golf Ball:

    This is cool, too:

    The Scale of the Universe: http://htwins.net/scale2 (h/t Jon Eck)

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    Groothuis’ "Christian Apologetics" ch.2: The Biblical Basis for Apologetics

    “False ideas are the greatest obstacles to the reception of the gospel.  We may preach with all the fervour of a reformer and yet succeed only in winning a straggler here and there, if we permit the whole collective thought of the nation or of the world to be controlled by ideas which, by the resistless force of logic, prevent Christianity from being regarded as anything more than a harmless delusion.” –J. Gresham Machen, p 28

    “The claim that no one is argued into Christianity is simply false.  Although reasoning with unbelievers can prove frustrating, this may be more the fault of poor arguments, poor presentations or poor character than of the fruitlessness of apologetics per se. … Moreover, noteworthy individuals such as John Warwich Montgomery and C.S. Lewis trace their conversions to key transformations in their thinking wrought through rational arguments.” pp. 29-30 (Groothuis’ Christian Apologetics)

    Also, his mention on page 43 of retreating and restrategizing if the conversation is just counter-productive, then referring in a footnote to Jesus’ discussion of not casting pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6), helped me to better understand what Jesus was getting at.  That passage bugged me for a long time.  It is only taken as an insult by someone who thinks they know it all and is offended at the thought they may need to change their mind upon learning the truth.  One is swine if one rejects evidence and good reasoning (pearls) only on the basis that it does not line up with their worldview.  As long as they are more attached to their worldview than to an honest examination of those pearls, they will just trample them under their feet into the mud of their beloved worldview.  It’s true of all of us.  It’s the same message communicated in Jesus’ talk of new wineskins.

    (discussion index)

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